Difference between revisions of "Current events"

Revision as of 04:29, 21 April 2006

What's going on

Templates

I've created a couple of templates for editor use: Template:Stub and Template:Rewrite. Template:Stub is to be used on pages that are missing large amounts of important information - an example is Broom. Template:Rewrite is to be used on less severe cases of missing information, or on pages that merely need rewriting - an example is Alumina refiner. Sho 15:21, 24 Sep 2005 (EDT)

• Some changes have been made to the templates. From now on all editor templates will be listed on Help:Templates. Sho 14:42, 13 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Weapons category

I've just filled in the entire weapons category from info found IC. Please feel free to check it out, spell check, format etc. Just make sure it's consistent as all the pages now have consistent IC info. Kabl00ey 04:37, 4 Oct 2005 (EDT)

• We should decide on a template for weapons, among other things. I'm thinking of listing the requirements the same way on pretty much every object type. --Nick Roberts 06:33, 15 Oct 2005 (EDT)
  • All for it. Go ahead and format a weapon, and if it's good we'll slap the format onto all the weapons and tools. The requirements section should be the same for both, and other properties (weight, visibility) are similar - just that tools should have a "uses" section where weapons have "effectiveness." Sho 09:00, 15 Oct 2005 (EDT)
    • Once again we come to the "what's the appropriate format" debate. The weapons category right now just reflects the IC information, and is displayed similarly. The only exception to this is the latter weapons (I started from the end, I have no idea why) where I've been formating for clarity, adding images and OOC info. Kabl00ey 19:34, 16 Oct 2005 (EDT)

I like how there are attack values. It makes it much easier to figure out. If someone wants to know what does the most damage they can just take a look at all the weapons. A list of best to worst isn't useless though. Joshuamonkey

Machinery

Category:Machinery is finally done. Many pages are lacking information, though. Sho 14:42, 13 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Admin

To be sure: Kabl00ey is now a full admin on the Wiki, so contact him for any admin interference that is needed. As stated before, most of the moderation of the Wiki will be left to the players at large and will depend on self-organisation, but where admin privileges are needed, or where there are serious conflicts that do not seem to get resolved, Kabl00ey is in charge. He, in turn, has to follow Communications Department / general game administration policy and should create a thread in the CD forum in case of doubt. --Jos Elkink 07:44, 16 Oct 2005 (EDT)

There have been several cases of images being uploaded or links made to external images in the Wiki. Users should take care that images so used are either explicitly in the public domain, copy-free or that the copyright holder has given permission for their use. Current usage is non-malicious, non-profit , for illustrative purposes only and credits the source of the image but these in themselves are not necessarily “fair usage”. --Chris Johnson 15:01, 25 Nov 2005 (EST)

A good example of how to reference and link to copyrighted material including images is the entry for Atlatl, here text describing the item has a reference and there is a link to an external site for those who wish to view images of an Atlatl. --Chris Johnson 06:42, 26 Nov 2005 (EST)

The position of wiki sysop still needs to be filled. The CD got no responses to the request for applicants, there seems to be little interest in the position. If anyone here wants to apply, then please do. How urgent is the position? Have spam problems been sorted, and have admin rights already been passed on?--Hallucinatingfarmer 09:24, 20 Apr 2006 (EDT)

• I think it would help if needed skills were listed. Just being capable of editing, or more "behind the scenes" skills as well? And also, which department one would apply to to be the wiki sysop. (Did a quick search for wiki on the application page, found nothing.) With that said, I'd apply if it doesn't require too 1337 programming skills, but I'll be unavailable for three months in the near future. If you still need one in September, though... - Hellzon 10:01, 20 Apr 2006 (EDT)

There is still no active administrator - Kabl00ey and Jos are the only sysops, and neither is active in the wiki. Spam has been taken care of for the time being, but I believe an agreement was reached that a permanent solution (the current spam-blocking system is very much stopgap) would involve the appointment (as soon as possible) of a sysop for moderation purposes.

When was the request for a sysop made? I don't remember seeing one, and neither did anyone I straw-polled in the IRC. If CD wants to try again, I can write a short description of the position, skills needed, etc. Sho 00:28, 21 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Discussion

Language setup

Do you think maybe the different languages ought to have different wikis, instead of being on the same pages? --Nick Roberts 20:30, 12 Jul 2005 (EDT)

• I agree. --Creepyguyinblack 04:50, 13 Jul 2005 (EDT)
• I changed it. --Jos Elkink 05:08, 13 Jul 2005 (EDT)
• Would it be possible to make a true multi-language setup, similar to Wikipedia's? I don't know what's involved in making that work (I have a suspicion that it's not feasile here), but it's kind of annoying when half of the time Special:Randompage brings up a Polish page; also crosslinking articles is rather inelegant with the current system (no framework; also there are some pages like Jeep(pl). Sho
• That would certainly be preferable... and was what I had in mind when originally making this suggestion. I don't like coming across polish articles when clicking on random page, or having search results clogged up with Polish links. --Nick Roberts 08:37, 15 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Agglomeration vs. subdivision

Some categories of items, such as tools, have all of their elements listed on the same page. Others, such as resources, have separate pages for everything. My gut instinct (as a Wikipedian) is to split everything into separate pages and use categories to tie them together (it makes it easier for people to just type what they're looking for in the search box), but I can see why we might want to keep things in big metapages - it's similar to the format found in IC guides, often the individual data aren't big enough for individual articles, and it would be loads of unrewarding data-entry grunt work. Anyone have any opinion? Sho

• The category system (tools) is so much clearer and easier to access the information you're looking for, so whilst I understand the Wikipedian urge to split everything, I think that the category system still provides easily accessible information. I cry a little on the inside when trying to find stuff on the seperate system (resources) - segregating the data, whilst easier to categorise and search, adds unnecessary pain in wading through links and editing pages. Kabl00ey 00:07, 17 Sep 2005 (EDT)
  • With proper use of categories, I think splitting makes things easier. In Firefox, I can use quicksearches to instantly pull up a page on anything that has its own page, without clicking on any links. I can't do that with a monolithic megapage. In the same way, it's easier to just punch the thing you're looking for into the search box - one click - with split pages. Categories can bring the pages back together anyway. Sho 00:35, 17 Sep 2005 (EDT)
    • I agree with Sho, the category system that was used for the resources worked great. I think a similar system should be used for machines, buildings, vehicles, tools, et al. --Nick Roberts 08:53, 18 Sep 2005 (EDT)
      • I'm surprised the tool set-up has lasted so long, it was only a copy/paste from an ingame guide I'd made - it looks ugly here. I'd like a segregated set-up there, but not for clothing I don't think, as that'd be no more of a copy of the in-game set-up - I've started discussion on clothing about how I'd like to go about finishing that section.--Hallucinatingfarmer 18:13, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)
        • Yeah, everyone agrees with that HF. It just hasn't been gotten to yet. --Nick Roberts 13:49, 27 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Resource Department disclosure

Long-standing question: Since the repeal of the "find out in game" rule (or FOIG), should the RD be allowed/required to release to the wiki all information that can be discovered in-game?

Since I expect some long-winded responses to this that won't fit in a nested list format (or maybe that's just me), please post responses as subsections. Sho 22:49, 11 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Yes

The purpose of FOIG's repeal was to remove the effect of certain characters having advantages over other characters because their players knew more than other players. If we restrict RD's release of information that could be discovered IC, it's possible for that situation to arise again - a character gains an informational advantage because his player tried something, with a different character, that no player has posted on the wiki about. There are two solutions to this problem. One is to require that all players wiki any information they obtain in-game as soon as they get it. This is unenforceable and silly. The other is to have RD wiki all obtainable information to level the playing field in advance.

Another reason is, simply, efficiency. Generally those who oppose full disclosure argue that players should work to find obtainable data on their own. The problem is that obtainable data is often not at all easy to obtain. Some data, such as the amounts of resources certain animals drop when hunted, is precisely obtainable, but only if characters spend significant resources to discover them. Do we really need to have a situation where players have to use their characters and significant amounts of their own time to obtain information that could be retrieved in under a minute by RD staff?

There is also some precedent. Resource gathering rates are arguably something that realistically should not be displayed as explicitly as they are in-game; even more so the 20% deviation in output. Building capacity was freely released by RD (even vehicle capacities, which RD is refusing to release, is being witheld not because they should not be released in general, but because they will soon be outdated), even though it is an excellent example of obtainable data that would take colossal effort to discover in-game (to my knowledge no character or player had anything approaching precise values for building capacities before RD released them on the wiki).

Sho 22:42, 11 Oct 2005 (EDT)

• Strictly speaking RD did not release the building capacity infomation. Thses details where released by the Programming Department (ProgD). A bug was discovered which effectively disabled the maximum number of persons . Since correction of this bug generated a number of support queries , ProgD felt that publishing this information would help explain what seemed to be changes in room capacities. --Chris Johnson 05:20, 12 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Disambiguation for tools

There are many cases where projects require either or two tools, such as projects that require a hammer or a stone hammer (but display the requirement as "hammer"). How will we treat these here? I can think of two options:

1. We could replace every instance of "hammer" in a project requirements list with "hammer or stone hammer."
2. We could use a special page for those. For example, create the page Hammer (requirement) to explain how the hammer requirement works. If we go with this, the way in which we name these pages (and what we put on them) is up for discussion.

What ideas do people have? Sho 23:35, 14 Oct 2005 (EDT)

For instance, iron or bronze anvil... they both enable the same sort of projects. Perhaps we should have one consolidated anvil page, with info about both? Same would go for knives and hammers. Thoughts? --Nick Roberts 05:20, 24 Oct 2005 (EDT)

I've gone ahead and dropped in a system that uses templates. When a project requires either of two tools, like a hammer or stone hammer, you use the template in place of the tool name - in this case, {{hammer}}. Sho 18:18, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)

Machinery format change

Yesterday I added some coin data to Coin press. I used a different format for this, using a table. I think this could be extended to the other machinery project listings, making them much more compact. Comments? I can make a sample page if anyone wants to see it. Sho 18:26, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)

Spam problem

Here - [1] and here - [2] is some solutions listed. Admin, please make use of these concepts :) - Wojd

• Well, who do you mean by "admin"? Kabl00ey is the official sysop-moderator, but I've e-mailed him to ban the spammer and he hasn't responded. Jos is the only person who can change fundamental wiki setup, but he doesn't like to get involved with the wiki. I'm the most active and knowledgeable wiki editor, but I have no power to actually do anything other than edit pages and e-mail important people - in any case, none of what you've linked us to here is new to me. Oh, and please sign your comments. Sho 02:03, 18 Dec 2005 (EST)
  • I think, we should use general solutions - this is better than individual bans. I'm quite new in Cantr and in Wiki and I don't know many things yet but it's obvious that Cantr staff need help - and I'll try to help a bit ;) WojD 04:50, 18 Dec 2005 (EST)
    • My point is that the only people who can implement these general solutions (most of which, incidentally, would not work here - individual bans placed by active sysops really are the best solution) are not active on the wiki. The issue is not that the staff need help but that the staff either don't care or aren't around. I can't do anything, and neither can you, and talking isn't going to change anything. Sho 17:56, 18 Dec 2005 (EST)
      • I'm not very new to Cantr or how the wiki works but I don't compare to Sho. Talking about changes isn't a bad thing, they have to start somewhere. Is there anyone active in the wiki who can make changes? Or atleast get Jos' attention. :) Though I guess that would be you Sho. User:Joshuamonkey
        • As I said, Kabl00ey and Jos are the only people with sysop powers, and Jos doesn't want to have anything to do with the wiki. We had a hard enough time getting Jos to make Kabl00ey a sysop. In any case, there are no server-level or sysop-level changes that will do much to stop spam here, short of giving sysop powers to multiple active editors.Sho 00:16, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)
          • I've recently spoken to Kabl00ey about his inactivity, which he's explained. He hopes to be active again as soon as he can. Hopefully there's nothing too urgent?--Hallucinatingfarmer 14:19, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

Tasks

Admin tasks

Pages for Deletion

Listed on Category:Delete

User tasks

"Stamp of Approval"

It's not clear how much of the stuff here is data from Programming or Resources Department people (and therefore probably complete and correct) and how much is contributions from players like me (and therefore likely to need verification). For example, I'm not sure how much to trust the data on the ability of certain boat types to dock to each other; I feel that it looks like some types were left out, but I can't be sure. Some way of, say, putting a stamp of approval on information would be excellent. Sho

• A good idea would be to add notes into the discussion pages stating the information added and from what department. Personally, I've added the information for vehicles and animals, and so should be 99.9% accurate. --Anthony Roberts 22:59, 16 Aug 2005 (EDT)
  • The information I added to a bunch of tools and weapons is 100% accurate. :D All from IC. Joshuamonkey 00:00, 12 Feb 2006 (EST)

Pages needing breakdown

• Tools must be broken up into separate Category:Tools articles.